Debbie Foster (00:03): 

Welcome back to the Powerful Leaders No apologies podcast, where we celebrate fierce, fabulous females making waves in the legal world. I’m Debbie Foster and I’m excited to introduce you to these women who are leading the charge with their bold leadership and influential journeys ready to be inspired by their powerful stories. Here’s the show. 

  

(00:27): 

I think every episode is a special episode, but this one is actually really special to me. I have been lucky enough to be a part of the Susan L. French Emerging Leader Fellowship program for the last few years, and it is a program that was inspired by a woman named Susan L. French, who was a member of the A LA and also a friend of mine and a friend of so many. She was someone, I don’t think that anybody could ever find a single person who would say a negative thing about Susan. She was one of the most kind and professional leaders and she gave back so much to the A LA and just really meant a lot to so many people. And she passed away and this emerging leader fellowship program was created in her honor, and it’s a program that every year young leaders are nominated to become a part of the program. 

  

(01:22): 

And as part of that, the fellows who apply to be a part of the program and have to go through a whole criteria before they are selected, the fellows get to spend some time with Judy Ong, who is a leadership consultant and also a well-known and well-loved longtime member of the A six week educational session focused on leadership. And then they work with me for six weeks on communication style and being a great leader from a communication perspective. And it has been my pleasure to work with the two fellows from this year, Erica Brundage and Joanna Hurt. And so I’m going to first let them introduce themselves and then we’re going to dive in a little bit more to what we’ve been talking about and their experience with the program over the last several months. So Joanna, I’m going to ask you to go first and give your background. 

  

Joanna Hurt (02:18): 

Hey, I’m Joanna Hurt. I’m originally from Charleston, South Carolina, and I moved to DC where I currently am after college and got a job at a law firm and sort of just got it because I had worked at law firms in the summer and maybe I wanted to be a lawyer and I was a legal assistant and then I couldn’t figure out what I wanted to do. And then I thought, well, law really isn’t what I want to do in the end. And my predecessor, Kay, she decided it was time for her to retire. So she spoke to me and said, I think you are really great with people and I think it’d be great if you took over as office manager. I was a small boutique law firm in DC and before I became office manager, we merged with McCarter in English, which is where I work now, and became the DC office and they added other practice groups there. So I became the office manager and Kay trained me then I’ve been the office manager for about seven or eight years now. And yeah, I really enjoy people and I manage the staff here as well as all the facilities. I do a little bit of everything. 

  

Debbie Foster (03:32): 

Excellent. Erica, how about you? 

  

Erica Brundage (03:34): 

Hi. Well thank you for having us, Debbie. I am Erica Brundage, the legal assistant support manager at Merchant Gould. I’m also a southern girl like Joanna from Baton Rouge through Louisiana originally and started working at law firms the month after I graduated high school. My mom’s best friend in college is a patent attorney, so she let me work in her file room and just kept going back because I like to have income or money. So just kept working in law firms and left her file room after college and kind of took an assistant role and then some paralegal or client support functions. And then in the pandemic went into another role. And then an assistant paralegal I used to work with started at Merchant and told me about a role they had. So I came over in November of 2021, so throughout that was in Baton Rouge, did a stint in Atlanta, went to Georgia Tech and then moved here to the DC area two years ago. My DC bursary was actually on Monday. So I’ve been here two years officially and I’ve gotten involved with the junior league, gotten into a LA, obviously formed a friendship with Joanna. So just very excited to be here. And I have to say I’m a sports person, so LSU Football, Braves Saints, those are all my teams. So love sports, grew up playing sports and that’s definitely a part of who I’m 

  

Debbie Foster (04:50): 

Awesome. So you mentioned the A LA and anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I’m a super fan of the A LA. In fact, the first episode of season two, we had Amanda Capless as our guest. And fun fact, she was also our guest on the first episode of season one. So I thought it was cool to have her back again. She is a good friend of mine and also the incoming president of the A LA. She takes the gavel over from Jeffrey Williams, who is also a good friend of mine who has been the president for this past year. So I am a super fan of the A LA and I can’t understand why anyone who works in a law firm has any leadership role in making the business of a law firm work wouldn’t be a part of the A LA. And I know you all are big fans of the A LA. I’d love to hear how you got involved and are you serving in any volunteer roles right now? Tell me a little bit about your A experience and Erica, I’ll ask you to go first on that one. 

  

Erica Brundage (05:52): 

Sure. So I, I’ve been in law firm since after I graduated high school, so I don’t really know anything else. But in my first job after college, I had a really great manager, a woman, Kim de Bo, shout out to her and she was just amazing and I wanted to be like her when I grew up. So I spent time, I don’t know, I’m a nerd and I love personal growth, so just like how can I be better in a law firm as a non-lawyer? And so I stumbled across a LA and then learned that you have to be in a certain type of role to get in the organization, but it’s kind of a great launchpad or just professional development organization. So I knew I needed to get into a supervisory role. And so I was able to do that by some of the connections I had made being an assistant and in some of those other roles. 

  

(06:33): 

And so when I got into this role, I was like, oh my God, not only do I want to join a LA, I need to join a LA because what have I gotten myself into? I’m no longer just doing forms and supporting an attorney. I have to deal with the human aspect of the law firm, help please or I in the exits. And so I was able to get to the IP conference and met some really great people and was like, okay, maybe I can do this. Other people have the same issues that I have. It’s really a community. And so I would probably be in a padded room somewhere if it were not for all the great resources that I’ve been afforded through a LA and fellowship. So very glad to be here. 

  

Debbie Foster (07:14): 

That’s amazing. And I feel like I just hear that story over and over again about the value. Joanna, how about you? How did you get involved and tell me a little about your a journey. 

  

Joanna Hurt (07:24): 

I think mine’s more of a classic. I was just told I had to join it. I was voluntold by my predecessor and she was like, you have natural leadership, but you need to hone your skills. So she said, this is where you sign up and I want you to start going to the meetings. So I started going to our community meetings with branch law firm meetings and I became head of that community. And then I was on the board for community service for the local chapter, the capital chapter, which was really fun. And then they convinced me to stay on for another physician. Now I’m VP of communications and Erica is now VP elect of community services at the Capital Chapter. Yeah, I mean, I love to learn and I go to as many sessions as I can, and I’ve learned so much from everyone in a LA, I don’t know what I do without them. Anytime I have a question, there are a million people who will answer them and have been through the same situations. And yeah, it’s people who all want to be good leaders and yeah, I’m a big cheerleader. 

  

Debbie Foster (08:37): 

That’s great. I saw on Facebook a few months ago, someone that I’ve known from the A LA for a very, very long time, an L member in the Suncoast chapter and three other A members from the Suncoast chapter went on a two week tour of Italy together. And I look at that and I cannot help but see those pictures and think those people wouldn’t know each other if it wasn’t for the A LA. And that’s maybe an extreme example that these people went on vacation together. But I see stories after stories. Susan L. French, when Susan French died, the community of people in the A LA that came together to celebrate her life was unbelievable. And these are work colleagues that have become friends, and there are so many stories like that about the A LA. It starts off as this professional thing and then it changes into so many other experiences and opportunities. 

  

(09:38): 

And one of the fellows that I had last round was Julie Cooney and Julie Cooney, so proud of her. I just saw on LinkedIn, the Central Florida chapter posted their roster of officers and Julie Cooney’s, the president elect of the central Florida chapter. Unbelievable. Right. So amazing. So I love all the opportunities that you guys have. So let’s go back to talking about this fellowship program. I’d love for y’all to share what have been your biggest takeaways? What have been some of the things that have really made you think about yourself as a leader and yourself as an a community member? Just share some of your general takeaways. And Joanne, I’ll ask you to go first for this one. 

  

Joanna Hurt (10:29): 

Okay. Well, I attend a lot of a events, but never anything as a small group. The French fellowship has been, it’s just Erica and I and then we did a course with Judy Hassan, which was with four people, was a small group. And it’s just really nice to get more direct specific coaching and learning experience, which of course, I still love my a chapter in the bigger group setting. And we’ve met with our mentors every month, which has been really great with Julie was my mentor for the first half. And then working with you has been really great, but just a lot of things we think about every day that I need to think about. More specifically, like with Judy, we talked a lot about change management, which really was a good thing, honestly, thinking that you may create a change in your job and then it may fall apart, but that’s okay. 

  

(11:25): 

That’s part of the process. That’s something that’s really stuck with me, that people are going to move through the different quadrants of change and sometimes they’ll move out and won’t accept the change and move back in. I’ve been thinking a lot about my values in my work, what other people value. It helps me to understand them a lot more. Doing the disc assessment with you has really been kind of therapy session in a way to learn more about myself and why I am driven by certain things and why other people might not understand it. So yeah, I guess it’s just been a really concentrated really good leaders we’ve been working with and people that get us and want us to do better, and it’s just been a great experience. 

  

Debbie Foster (12:08): 

Excellent. Erica, how about you? 

  

Erica Brundage (12:11): 

Definitely echo Joanna, that it’s been a great experience and I feel like all, I guess takeaways are things that I can kind of implement in the workplace immediately. The things that we’ve talked about today I can implement this afternoon, which is really nice. And I think for me, coming into the fellowship and just knowing that we would get more leadership tools, I thought it would be a lot of, I guess more just people management deliverables, I guess what we think of as hard skills. And then I guess I’m appreciating more that a lot of management and leadership is just dealing again with the human element. We are attorneys, non-attorneys, facilities, whatever, but we’re all humans at the end of the day. So the speed at which we can all manage change or accept change urgency as that comes up. So I think just a lot of that and then also just how I self-manage and knowing more about myself so that I can communicate more effectively or process things more effectively just so that I can lead the team better. 

  

(13:08): 

So I think for me, it’s been a lot less and o’s my sports reference and just a lot more just personal self-management, dealing with the human elements, the feelings, which I’ll be totally honest, it’s not my favorite part of the job, but it is necessary, right? Because I mean human resources or whatever, it’s the human part. So it’s been fun and I do think I’ve improved a little. I know the people that I work with might see otherwise, but I do feel like they’ve been real skills that I’ve been able to implement and just been really nice. 

  

Debbie Foster (13:42): 

That’s great. When I worked with Julie Solo, because whoever the other person was I think got out of legal. And so it was just Julie and I for six weeks and then working with you two, I don’t think I’ve said this out loud to you guys, but I’ve learned just as much from the two of you, maybe even more. And it’s been an amazing experience for me to go through this with you all and listen to the challenges that you all have faced and also your big victories that you guys have had and how this program has affected and encouraged both of you. But also just to hear you talking about your time at work and the things that you struggle with and the things that you love about it has made me think differently about my own leadership style and also how I help law firms. 

  

(14:29): 

So I really appreciate you all being so candid and open and honest with me through our time together. I also love, as I’ve watched you two, it’s clear that you guys have developed a friendship. So I don’t know, you might not be going to Italy for a few weeks together, but I would love to hear a little bit more about the friendships that the two of you have formed and maybe even in the community, the fellowship community that you formed and how that has impacted you as leaders and also just personally. And so Erica, I’m going to ask you to go first about that one. 

  

Erica Brundage (15:05): 

Well, it’s so exciting to know that Joanna as my friend or we present ourselves as friends because I think Joanna’s just great. And I have to say when you use this term, she’s kind of like a friend tour to me because I don’t know, she’s just been great and I think being in DC a little longer than I haven’t been active in a LA, so thank you Joanna. And I think it just says a lot about a a generally, like Joanna was saying like-minded people who just want to help and support each other. So I don’t know, we just have been in a lot of the same spaces and kind of formed the teamwork I think at first just to make sure we were both showing up at the right time and being prepared and kind of having each other’s backs. And Joanna’s really super supportive. So it’s just happened organically and you spend enough time with somebody, you either love them or hate them. So I guess Joanna will keep me just coming onto the board with the capital chapter too. It’s nice that I can text her like, oh my God, do we have anything prepared? What’s going on? She definitely keeps me straight. So friend tour for life 

  

Debbie Foster (16:02): 

And I will just, I’m going to Joanna, I’m going to ask you to respond in just a second, but I’ll also say that as you all kind of embark on the journey of leadership in the chapter and working with other leaders, it becomes really interesting as you more and more experience the nuance of leading leaders. It’s one thing when you are a leader and you have people that you’re leading, but when you have a group of people that you’re leading that are also leaders and that don’t work for you, so you’re all just kind of volunteering now. You take out new tools and new skills and you sharpen your leadership skills in an even different and really kind of amazing way. So I’m excited to see how that journey happens for you guys as it has for Julie. I’m sure that I’m seeing you on video right now, so I’m sure I’m looking at the faces of two chapter leaders and who knows what it enters into in the long haul. Maybe one day I’ll be talking about Erica or Joanna being the next president of a national, and I remember back in the day when you all were in the fellowship program, so who knows what comes next. So Joanna, how about you from a friendship personal perspective? 

  

Joanna Hurt (17:18): 

Well, whenever I tell my friends about the A LA, it’s hard when you’re not in the legal industry to understand it. I’m just like, it’s people who get it and then it’s people who I would see the majority. We have very similar personalities. I remember one of my first meetings, some speaker asked a question and a million people started talking. There’s no silence where you have to wait for someone to answer. Everyone’s just one of those people that’s like going to shout on an answer. And I’m like, yes, that’s the type of person I am. And I love that I’m with all these other too. So I think Eric and I just really clicked because we’re very similar as we learned in the DISC assessment. But also, yeah, we both care about being good leaders and we’re both I think very nice and fun people. 

  

(18:05): 

Yeah, and I do not think I mentor Erica as much as she says that I do. I think she mentors me a lot and keeps me in check when I need to. We had to do a video presentation for the fellowship at the end of the first part, and it was a comedy of errors. Nothing would work technically. We had a lot of problems and I think it really made us closer because we both at times wanted to scream and we kept it together and ultimately the product could be better perfectionist, but we did a good job and I think we work well as a team and we both compliment each other. So I’m really glad to have found Erica. And it also helped that when we went to the chapter leadership institute that Erica showed me New Orleans one of the nights and loosened me up with some hurricanes. So 

  

Debbie Foster (18:55): 

We 

  

Joanna Hurt (18:55): 

Really bombed 

  

Debbie Foster (18:57): 

The gift that keeps on giving a hurricane 

  

Joanna Hurt (19:02): 

One hurricane one her and one her. 

  

Debbie Foster (19:04): 

That’s awesome. That’s enough. That’s awesome. Alright, so I’m going to ask you guys the final question. And Joanna, I’m going to ask you to go first on this one. We asked this of all of our guests at the end of the podcast episode, and that is, what do you think your leadership superpower is? 

  

Joanna Hurt (19:21): 

I’ve been struggling to come up with it. We were talking about this earlier, it feels weird to kind of brag about yourself, but got to get better about it. I think I have a really good sense of humor and I am a optimistic person, so I think that that really helps When there’s tension, I can make a joke. I mean, I’m not a standup comic or anything. I don’t want to claim to be that funny, but I can loosen up situations that not everything is as serious as everyone thinks it seems. And I know that sometimes we need to be very serious, but if there’s a chance to get a giggle in, I’m going to do it. And I think that really helps put people at ease and make people work better together when you have a little bit of comedy and optimism where it’s not as doom and gloom. So yeah, that’s what I came up with. 

  

Debbie Foster (20:11): 

That is an amazing superpower. I love that. Erica, how about you? 

  

Erica Brundage (20:15): 

So I have to add, and Joanne has a great laugh too. So it’s good that she has a good sense of humor because when you hear her laugh, then you want to laugh because she’s 

  

Joanna Hurt (20:22): 

Got a great, I’ve been trying not to laugh too much. I don’t want to burst the mic. 

  

Erica Brundage (20:27): 

It’s, it’s a great laugh. So also thinking about this, and I think for everything, to me it comes back to just my passion for service. And that’s why I also just have enjoyed this fellowship so much because it really is about servant leadership. So just oversharing, I went to church school my whole life, so it’s like the last shall be first and all these types of things that you can really receive more by serving others. So that’s why I just am so excited to serve the capital chapter as the VP elect for community service and then being active with the junior league too, and just really getting to get out and serve the community and serve others. And I think that entails also empathy, wanting to include people, just how can you serve everyone? And in doing that, sometimes you lead people and just uplifting them and supporting them where they’re through service. So it just makes me happy. 

  

Debbie Foster (21:16): 

I am so excited to watch the journey of both of you from a leadership perspective. I think it has been such a pleasure working with both of you, and I really appreciate y’all saying yes to being on this episode of the podcast watching, just even in the last, I don’t know, it’s been a couple of months, I feel like maybe three months in the last three months getting to know you has been a pleasure and I am looking forward to where will we be? Salt Lake City, seeing you both because you’ll both be in Salt Lake City, right? Yes. Okay, perfect. So I am looking forward to seeing you both in person, and thank you again for being willing to show up here and just being authentic and talking about this experience and your experience with the A LA. It’s really been a pleasure working with both of you. 

  

Erica Brundage (22:03): 

Likewise. Thank you, Debbie. 

  

Debbie Foster (22:05): 

Yes, likewise. For sure. Thank you. And that’s a wrap. Are you feeling inspired? Take that energy and go make a difference today. And don’t forget to subscribe to keep up with our latest episodes, and if today’s show really resonated with you, share this episode with your friends and colleagues. You’ll also find some resources and ways to connect in the show notes. So until our next episode, get out there and change the world.